Interview: Trish Harris talks about Out of the Box

Trish Harris is a writer and creative writing tutor. She is the author of my wide white bed and The Walking Stick Tree and has worked across publishing, radio and disability media. She co-founded Crip the Lit and is passionate about sharing Deaf and disabled stories with readers.

What is Out of the Box about?

Out of the Box tells the stories of 25 Deaf and disabled artists, activists and adventurers from Aotearoa, past and present. Each profile includes a bold illustration.

Underpinning those individual stories are bigger stories about how change happens in society, the growing strength of Deaf and disabled voices, the development of language around disability and celebrating culture. Some of those threads are explicit in the detailed timeline in the second part of the book (1846-2026), while other aspects are woven in and through the 25 profiles.

What inspired you to write it?

I wanted our Deaf and disability history to be known, and I wanted our people celebrated as interesting, influential people in wider society – Deaf and disability pride!

Even today, the prominent storyline about Deaf and disabled people is how their lives inspire everyone else, or how the people who help us are inspirational (rather than how those people should be paid fairly).

Those are tired narratives. For me, it’s often the small details that are most interesting, and the nuance. Yes, there are achievements, and many of the people in the book speak to that – but many of these stories are also about ordinary desires – wanting to play sport well or travel freely by bus or be part of your culture.

Why did you give the book the title Out of the Box?

It’s tricky to find the right title for a book. For a long time, the working title was ‘About Us ’, which comes from the catch-cry in the Deaf and disability community: ‘Nothing about us, without us – no one left behind’.  I like that catch-cry a lot, but titles need to be snappy. You always hope you’ll find just the right phrase within the text and I did, with a quote from the profile of our first Deaf MP Mojo Mathers.

The phrase Out of the Box has energy, and as a friend said recently, it speaks of surprises. It also indicates Deaf and disabled people do things in their own way, which I like!

Out of the Box is mainly written for 12 to 15-year-olds. Why this age group in particular?

It’s for a combination of reasons. I knew our Deaf and disability history is not well-known – for example, people like Sir Robert Martin and his contribution should be well-known, but isn’t.  

I wanted young people to hear about that history (as well as contemporary stories) – but to do that in an engaging way. I knew from librarian friends that books with very short engaging profiles like Barbara Else’s Go Girl, Stuart Lipshaw’s Oh Boy and others, really appeal to young people.

I think that age group will be interested in not just the stories, but also the societal factors, the wider context – the ‘mountains’ mentioned in the book that need to be flattened – because they’re interested in equity.

How did you go about selecting the Deaf and disabled New Zealanders to profile in Out of the Box?

I quickly came up with 30 names just from people I knew, but once I started researching, that list ballooned to over 100. There’s a lot of depth in our communities. To whittle it down to 25 I needed to be quite clear about the balance I wanted in the book – people from across time, a spread of impairments, a good representation of genders and cultures, and of course that artist, activist and adventurer balance. Alongside all of that I needed to keep the readership in mind – to have stories that would draw in 12 to 15-year-olds. It was a lot of conditions for 25 profiles! But I’m really pleased with who is in the book.

You’re a writer and a tutor. Can you tell us a bit about the work you’ve done in these spaces?

I’ve worked in Communication units for government and community organisations. That taught me to keep my writing audience firmly in mind, and not be precious about my work being edited (or try not to be)! In the last 10 years, my writing work has been all about working on my books, plus the pocketbook Here we are, read us we produced for Crip the Lit. I don’t have the capacity to work full-time – energy gets parcelled out carefully.

I’ve worked as a tutor on the Whitireia Creative Writing Programme and co-facilitated writing workshops in the community. Adrienne Jansen, who set up the Whitireia Writing Programme, says: Writing is the preserve of the community. I believe that too. Most recently I co-facilitated a workshop for Crip the Lit on disability ancestors. What a buzz!

Can you tell us a bit about your own disability?

I developed juvenile rheumatoid arthritis as a child. I grew up at a time when the word ‘cripple’ was still being used in some settings. I hated that word – yet now, many decades later it’s a word that’s been reclaimed. Sometimes that’s what connecting with your Deaf and disabled peers can give you – the energy to reclaim the narrative and celebrate who you are. There’s a lot of great crip humour!

You co-founded Crip the Lit. What is this group’s kaupapa?

Robyn Hunt and I set up Crip the Lit to celebrate, encourage and advocate for Deaf and disabled people to tell their stories, their way. We’ve produced the small publication Here we are, read us and the group has appeared at Wellington’s LitCrawl and Verb festival events over many years.

Do you think life has changed much for Deaf and disabled New Zealanders in the last 50 years?

That’s a big question. Much has changed, much still needs to change and unfortunately there are hard-fought-for gains that we’ll lose if we don’t protect them.

In my lifetime there’s been a big increase in disability-led organisations and initiatives. New Zealand Sign Language has become an official language in Aotearoa and is much more widely used and recognised. There is a need for more of all of the above, including funding to make improvements viable.

What’s also changed in my lifetime is Deaf and disabled artists – musicians, dancers, painters, filmmakers, writers, actors – are more visible. They both represent our communities and help push the boundaries of what it means to be us.

Sports opportunities for disabled people have also increased, and the huge public following for the Paralympics and Paralympians is great to see. I was keen to have Eve Rimmer, our first medal-winning Paralympian (1968), in the book, because her comments remind us how far we’ve come.

What do you want people to take away from reading the book?

I hope they’ll enjoy learning about interesting people! I hope if they’re nondisabled, they’ll have a greater understanding of who makes up our society in Aotearoa, and how we need to make it function better for everyone. I hope that readers who are Deaf or disabled will come away with a sense of pride and belonging. And for all readers, I hope that by learning more of our history, we’ll make the future even better.